WEBVTT Kind: captions Language: en-US 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.135 ♪ (“LAST WEEK TONIGHT" INTRO MUSIC PLAYS) ♪ 00:00:03.637 --> 00:00:04.505 ♪ (MUSIC FADES) ♪ 00:00:04.571 --> 00:00:05.906 -(AUDIENCE APPLAUDS) -Our main story tonight 00:00:05.973 --> 00:00:07.274 concerns drugs. 00:00:07.441 --> 00:00:09.443 We've talked about all sorts of them before, 00:00:09.543 --> 00:00:11.411 from opioids, to compounded drugs, 00:00:11.512 --> 00:00:13.480 to psychedelics, to opioids again, 00:00:13.547 --> 00:00:15.482 to lethal injection drugs, to opioids 00:00:15.582 --> 00:00:17.351 for a third and final time, to, of course, 00:00:17.451 --> 00:00:18.752 a bonus opioid story. 00:00:18.886 --> 00:00:19.820 But tonight, 00:00:19.953 --> 00:00:22.155 we're gonna talk about so-called "gas station drugs." 00:00:22.256 --> 00:00:24.558 You know, the colorful products with weird names 00:00:24.725 --> 00:00:25.993 that you tend to see behind the counter 00:00:26.059 --> 00:00:27.461 at gas stations, convenience stores, 00:00:27.561 --> 00:00:28.428 and smoke shops. 00:00:28.495 --> 00:00:31.598 It's a whole weird world of poppers, whippits, 00:00:31.765 --> 00:00:33.467 questionable supplements, and boner pills. 00:00:33.534 --> 00:00:35.936 And if you are wondering who buys those last ones, 00:00:36.003 --> 00:00:38.739 I'll let this convenience store clerk fill you in. 00:00:39.161 --> 00:00:41.512 This is why I gotta leave Circle K soon, bro, for real. 00:00:41.562 --> 00:00:43.911 Like, so, today I was just chilling, right? 00:00:44.011 --> 00:00:44.978 Working, whatever. 00:00:45.112 --> 00:00:46.246 This White dude come up. 00:00:46.313 --> 00:00:49.850 He's like, "Yo, you got any, any dick pills? Like Rhino dick pills?" 00:00:49.917 --> 00:00:51.051 And he did this shit with his arm. 00:00:51.118 --> 00:00:52.219 I was like, "We have these." 00:00:52.419 --> 00:00:53.820 He's like, "Fuck it, bro. Let me take 'em." 00:00:53.887 --> 00:00:54.955 I was like, "All right, bet." 00:00:55.088 --> 00:00:56.924 And while he was paying and shit, 00:00:57.224 --> 00:00:58.759 he opened it 00:00:58.859 --> 00:01:00.227 and he popped one. 00:01:00.294 --> 00:01:02.429 He went... and he popped one in his fucking mouth. 00:01:02.496 --> 00:01:03.530 And I was like... 00:01:03.601 --> 00:01:04.726 (AUDIENCE LAUGHS) 00:01:04.820 --> 00:01:06.220 And he was like, "Shit." 00:01:06.800 --> 00:01:07.765 And then he popped another one. 00:01:07.840 --> 00:01:09.565 I was like, "Oh, my fucking... 00:01:09.824 --> 00:01:10.971 What are you doing, bro? 00:01:11.067 --> 00:01:14.387 Why the fuck did you take two in a public area like this? 00:01:14.474 --> 00:01:15.654 You couldn't go home? 00:01:15.706 --> 00:01:17.144 You couldn't wait till you go home? 00:01:17.210 --> 00:01:19.317 Like, what the fuck is going on, son?" 00:01:19.542 --> 00:01:21.848 Yeah! All valid questions. 00:01:22.453 --> 00:01:23.696 And I will say, after hearing that, 00:01:23.771 --> 00:01:24.805 I won't feel nearly as bad 00:01:24.880 --> 00:01:27.410 the next time I open a Gatorade at the register before paying. 00:01:27.487 --> 00:01:29.735 "Look, I'll pay for it in a second, but trust me, 00:01:29.835 --> 00:01:32.485 -this could be way weirder." -(AUDIENCE LAUGHS) 00:01:32.559 --> 00:01:34.565 But again, it's not just boner pills. 00:01:34.665 --> 00:01:36.459 These products are part of a sprawling industry, 00:01:36.534 --> 00:01:37.464 and they promise everything 00:01:37.531 --> 00:01:39.433 from increased energy to pain relief. 00:01:39.499 --> 00:01:42.231 And while you might assume that they're just snake oil, 00:01:42.431 --> 00:01:44.266 that's not necessarily true. 00:01:44.616 --> 00:01:46.440 Some of these drugs can be actively dangerous, 00:01:46.506 --> 00:01:49.505 presenting risks of addiction just like controlled substances. 00:01:49.705 --> 00:01:52.279 And to hear some who've been addicted to them tell it, 00:01:52.346 --> 00:01:54.385 the very fact that that's been allowed to happen 00:01:54.568 --> 00:01:56.061 is pretty infuriating. 00:01:56.346 --> 00:01:57.292 REPORTER: It's a common sight 00:01:57.365 --> 00:01:58.765 in gas station convenience stores 00:01:58.819 --> 00:01:59.815 across the country, 00:01:59.886 --> 00:02:02.190 so-called "natural supplements" on display. 00:02:02.240 --> 00:02:05.471 Starting in like 2015, 2014, 00:02:05.521 --> 00:02:06.568 it had an opiate aisle. 00:02:06.622 --> 00:02:09.767 REPORTER: This is what hooked looked like for Brandon. 00:02:09.830 --> 00:02:13.153 Two hundred fifty bottles consumed in one month 00:02:13.353 --> 00:02:14.780 at the height of his addiction. 00:02:15.202 --> 00:02:17.371 There is so much that is alarming there, 00:02:17.437 --> 00:02:20.069 from the notion of a gas station having an "opiate aisle" 00:02:20.129 --> 00:02:21.529 to the fact that, I'm just gonna say it, 00:02:21.604 --> 00:02:24.248 that is too many tiny bottles of anything 00:02:24.298 --> 00:02:25.365 to go through in a month. 00:02:25.582 --> 00:02:27.268 Whether it's gas station supplements, 00:02:27.343 --> 00:02:28.561 airplane bottles of vodka, 00:02:28.611 --> 00:02:30.917 or even travel-size Olay body wash. 00:02:30.984 --> 00:02:33.620 First, buy full-size, don't live like this. 00:02:33.687 --> 00:02:35.422 But also, that's just too many bottles. 00:02:35.489 --> 00:02:37.369 How dirty are you getting? 00:02:37.786 --> 00:02:40.072 -I'm worried about you! -(AUDIENCE LAUGHS) 00:02:40.147 --> 00:02:41.528 And the thing is, stories like that 00:02:41.595 --> 00:02:42.763 are becoming more common as people 00:02:42.829 --> 00:02:45.010 increasingly seek these drugs out. 00:02:45.185 --> 00:02:46.967 For some, it may be for recreational use, 00:02:47.034 --> 00:02:49.323 because these products generally don't get detected 00:02:49.423 --> 00:02:50.373 on drug tests. 00:02:50.621 --> 00:02:51.555 But for others, it may be 00:02:51.634 --> 00:02:53.198 because they don't have access to health care, 00:02:53.419 --> 00:02:55.104 have a mistrust of mainstream science, 00:02:55.204 --> 00:02:57.573 or are self-treating anxiety, depression, fatigue, 00:02:57.648 --> 00:02:59.199 or opioid withdrawal. 00:02:59.474 --> 00:03:00.534 The problem is, though, 00:03:00.784 --> 00:03:03.771 these drugs exist in a regulatory Wild West. 00:03:04.096 --> 00:03:06.720 And in part, that is by their own design. 00:03:06.774 --> 00:03:08.234 Many of the companies behind them 00:03:08.309 --> 00:03:10.590 try to evade regulation with creative labeling, 00:03:10.657 --> 00:03:12.071 marketing them with language like, 00:03:12.159 --> 00:03:15.395 "for research purposes only," or "not for human consumption." 00:03:15.462 --> 00:03:17.309 But the most common tactic 00:03:17.584 --> 00:03:20.262 is simply labeling the product a dietary supplement. 00:03:20.534 --> 00:03:22.514 And that is because this 1994 law 00:03:22.739 --> 00:03:24.204 exempted the supplement industry 00:03:24.271 --> 00:03:26.318 from nearly all federal regulations. 00:03:26.418 --> 00:03:28.028 We actually talked about that before 00:03:28.095 --> 00:03:30.297 in our piece on Dr. Oz and nutritional supplements, 00:03:30.372 --> 00:03:31.640 which, by the way, ended 00:03:31.715 --> 00:03:33.442 with Steve Buscemi tap dancing 00:03:33.517 --> 00:03:34.802 in front of a kid's marching band, 00:03:34.877 --> 00:03:37.505 and just trust me, it made sense at the time. 00:03:37.580 --> 00:03:38.580 (AUDIENCE LAUGHS) 00:03:38.656 --> 00:03:39.920 But thanks to that law, 00:03:39.986 --> 00:03:42.076 there is currently no central process 00:03:42.151 --> 00:03:44.186 whereby products calling themselves "supplements" 00:03:44.336 --> 00:03:47.689 are tested or approved before they hit the shelves. 00:03:47.939 --> 00:03:49.667 And while there are some rules they have to follow 00:03:49.717 --> 00:03:51.185 regarding ingredients and marketing, 00:03:51.285 --> 00:03:52.733 many simply ignore them. 00:03:52.795 --> 00:03:55.289 All of which means the FDA and other regulators 00:03:55.389 --> 00:03:58.058 are essentially playing an impossible game of catch up. 00:03:58.308 --> 00:04:00.107 And the result of that can be a guy 00:04:00.173 --> 00:04:02.287 with a pile of bottles on his lawn 00:04:02.437 --> 00:04:04.765 wondering how the fuck that was allowed to happen. 00:04:05.182 --> 00:04:07.347 And that's actually the least of the consequences here. 00:04:07.414 --> 00:04:08.611 So given all of that, tonight, 00:04:08.761 --> 00:04:10.347 let's look at gas station drugs. 00:04:10.422 --> 00:04:11.672 And to do that, we're going to focus 00:04:11.747 --> 00:04:13.649 on three areas in particular. 00:04:13.849 --> 00:04:15.197 Sexual enhancement products, 00:04:15.334 --> 00:04:16.560 a substance called kratom 00:04:16.610 --> 00:04:18.821 and its associated compound, 7-OH, 00:04:18.971 --> 00:04:19.960 and Tianeptine. 00:04:20.302 --> 00:04:22.432 And let's start with the sexual enhancement stuff. 00:04:22.896 --> 00:04:25.285 Products like boner pills can be hard to miss, 00:04:25.385 --> 00:04:28.247 especially because they often have over-the-top names 00:04:28.347 --> 00:04:30.137 and packaging involving an animal. 00:04:30.237 --> 00:04:32.025 For instance, there's Black Panther, 00:04:32.351 --> 00:04:35.003 Blue Panther, Black Horse, The Goat, 00:04:35.187 --> 00:04:38.857 Super Bull, Ram It, Gold Lion, Super Cheetah, 00:04:39.007 --> 00:04:41.782 Anaconda, Rhino 8, Rhino 11, 00:04:41.902 --> 00:04:44.154 Rhino 69, of course, 00:04:44.279 --> 00:04:46.586 Rhino 96, Rhino 99, 00:04:46.653 --> 00:04:48.700 and my personal favorite, Boner Bears, 00:04:49.356 --> 00:04:52.713 which apparently contains a Proprietary Boner Bear Blend, 00:04:52.788 --> 00:04:55.516 a cursed series of words, 00:04:55.774 --> 00:04:57.151 and which features this image, 00:04:57.426 --> 00:04:59.845 which looks like what a Beanie Baby would see 00:04:59.995 --> 00:05:02.422 if it walked in on its parents having sex. 00:05:03.270 --> 00:05:04.917 But boner pills actually demonstrate 00:05:05.017 --> 00:05:06.894 pretty effectively the extent to which 00:05:06.969 --> 00:05:09.838 gas station drugs can be made by just about anyone, 00:05:09.913 --> 00:05:11.932 and I do mean anyone. 00:05:12.324 --> 00:05:14.381 NARRATOR: It's not like there's a single company 00:05:14.447 --> 00:05:17.430 making all of these dick pills and filling them with drugs. 00:05:18.130 --> 00:05:20.921 What actually happens is that the empty packaging 00:05:21.021 --> 00:05:23.652 for many of the most common sexual enhancement supplements 00:05:23.752 --> 00:05:25.762 gets purchased online from China. 00:05:26.126 --> 00:05:27.806 Then, the packages get filled 00:05:27.906 --> 00:05:30.125 by an unknown number of entities. 00:05:30.484 --> 00:05:33.137 Finally, the pills show up in stores around the country. 00:05:33.237 --> 00:05:36.215 To show how easy it is to get into the dick pill business, 00:05:36.465 --> 00:05:38.810 we ordered a sample of empty Rhino packaging 00:05:38.872 --> 00:05:39.785 from Alibaba. 00:05:40.269 --> 00:05:42.346 Now, if we wanted to, we could fill them 00:05:42.396 --> 00:05:45.290 with oregano or pop rocks or dirt. 00:05:45.740 --> 00:05:48.710 We could also fill the pills with natural herbal supplements, 00:05:48.785 --> 00:05:50.320 as the labels advertise, 00:05:50.395 --> 00:05:51.647 or pharmaceuticals, 00:05:51.722 --> 00:05:53.607 both of which are sold on Alibaba. 00:05:54.020 --> 00:05:55.555 Yeah, that's not ideal, is it? 00:05:55.622 --> 00:05:56.756 You don't want a pill's ingredients 00:05:56.823 --> 00:05:58.588 to be essentially "dealer's choice." 00:05:59.013 --> 00:06:01.007 And you would never tolerate that level of variance 00:06:01.090 --> 00:06:02.032 in other products. 00:06:02.095 --> 00:06:04.297 You would be justifiably annoyed if it turned out 00:06:04.364 --> 00:06:05.953 that some Cadbury creme eggs 00:06:06.078 --> 00:06:07.500 were filled with marinara sauce... 00:06:07.563 --> 00:06:08.549 (AUDIENCE LAUGHS) 00:06:08.599 --> 00:06:10.240 ...instead of what they're supposed to be filled with, 00:06:10.303 --> 00:06:12.576 -the Easter Bunny's thick, thick cum. -(AUDIENCE LAUGHS) 00:06:12.676 --> 00:06:15.971 And if you thought that clip was exaggerating, 00:06:16.296 --> 00:06:17.790 just watch what happened 00:06:17.953 --> 00:06:20.167 when they bought what looks like the same pill 00:06:20.242 --> 00:06:22.828 from two different stores right here in New York. 00:06:23.228 --> 00:06:26.065 NARRATOR: The packaging on these products was exactly the same. 00:06:26.186 --> 00:06:27.499 But when we opened the pills, 00:06:27.599 --> 00:06:29.627 it was evident there was inconsistency 00:06:29.702 --> 00:06:32.122 between the contents' colors and textures. 00:06:32.559 --> 00:06:34.915 Yeah, those two powders are clearly very different. 00:06:34.995 --> 00:06:36.617 One just looks like sand, 00:06:36.692 --> 00:06:39.003 while the other looks more like cremated Snoopy. 00:06:39.078 --> 00:06:41.902 And obviously, I hope it's not that. 00:06:41.989 --> 00:06:42.864 (AUDIENCE LAUGHS) 00:06:42.964 --> 00:06:45.584 Unless, that is, Snoopy's will specifically directed his heirs 00:06:45.659 --> 00:06:48.278 to "shove my remains into a gas station dick pill," 00:06:48.353 --> 00:06:51.506 in which case, I'm thankful his final wish was fulfilled. 00:06:51.707 --> 00:06:53.713 Woodstock, may his memory be a blessing. 00:06:53.768 --> 00:06:54.718 (AUDIENCE LAUGHS) 00:06:54.781 --> 00:06:57.246 The point is, these pills could contain 00:06:57.321 --> 00:06:59.940 literally anything, including, as they just said, 00:07:00.140 --> 00:07:01.855 actual pharmaceutical ingredients, 00:07:01.922 --> 00:07:02.868 though, importantly, 00:07:02.943 --> 00:07:06.380 not necessarily in careful or consistent dosages. 00:07:06.722 --> 00:07:09.541 Some Rhino pills have been shown to contain sildenafil 00:07:09.616 --> 00:07:10.517 and tadalafil, 00:07:10.597 --> 00:07:11.865 the respective active ingredients 00:07:11.932 --> 00:07:13.203 in Viagra and Cialis, 00:07:13.278 --> 00:07:15.747 and sometimes at extremely high doses, 00:07:15.897 --> 00:07:17.057 which isn't good, 00:07:17.182 --> 00:07:19.394 given that both drugs can lower blood pressure 00:07:19.506 --> 00:07:20.569 to dangerous levels, 00:07:20.644 --> 00:07:23.213 particularly if they interact with other medications. 00:07:23.323 --> 00:07:26.533 So, someone who can't get Cialis from their doctor 00:07:26.613 --> 00:07:27.959 for good reason 00:07:28.190 --> 00:07:30.796 might turn to these supplements without knowing 00:07:30.951 --> 00:07:32.940 they're about to get a megadose of it. 00:07:33.365 --> 00:07:36.101 One pill was found to contain 14 times the amount 00:07:36.156 --> 00:07:38.425 of active ingredient contained in a Cialis pill. 00:07:38.512 --> 00:07:41.423 Meanwhile, others were found to include dyes and filler, 00:07:41.498 --> 00:07:43.630 -like blue printer ink and drywall. -(AUDIENCE GROANS) 00:07:43.697 --> 00:07:44.968 So, on one hand, 00:07:45.018 --> 00:07:47.287 these pills could end up poisoning you, but on the other, 00:07:47.387 --> 00:07:49.097 if your printer runs out of blue ink, 00:07:49.222 --> 00:07:51.858 jam a few boner pills in the cartridge 00:07:51.933 --> 00:07:54.011 and you can finish printing off your Smurf porn. 00:07:54.086 --> 00:07:54.961 (AUDIENCE LAUGHS) 00:07:55.045 --> 00:07:57.748 And because the FDA is basically power-- power-- 00:07:57.839 --> 00:07:59.273 -No, stop, stop, stop, stop. -(AUDIENCE LAUGHS) 00:07:59.348 --> 00:08:01.243 Stop, stop, stop, stop, stop. Take it down, take it down. 00:08:01.678 --> 00:08:03.717 Because the FDA is basically powerless 00:08:03.783 --> 00:08:05.922 before a problem emerges, 00:08:06.257 --> 00:08:08.684 the main action it often takes is to simply 00:08:08.759 --> 00:08:11.758 offer public warnings to avoid certain products. 00:08:11.825 --> 00:08:15.061 That is why you can come across an official FDA release 00:08:15.128 --> 00:08:16.658 like this one, which reads, 00:08:16.733 --> 00:08:18.727 "FDA continues to advise consumers 00:08:18.802 --> 00:08:21.238 not to purchase or use Schwinnng products." 00:08:21.338 --> 00:08:22.313 (AUDIENCE LAUGHS) 00:08:22.369 --> 00:08:24.304 Which is embarrassing enough even before you realize 00:08:24.362 --> 00:08:26.702 that the release included this image of the packaging 00:08:26.952 --> 00:08:28.208 featuring the brand's mascot 00:08:28.274 --> 00:08:29.488 seen here answering the question, 00:08:29.588 --> 00:08:32.212 "What if Alfred E. Neuman got heavily into gooning?" 00:08:32.279 --> 00:08:33.291 (AUDIENCE LAUGHS) 00:08:33.346 --> 00:08:35.248 The FDA's also publicly warned against, 00:08:35.348 --> 00:08:37.988 and these are all real, My Steel Woody, 00:08:38.188 --> 00:08:42.676 Willy Go Wild, Big Penis, Australia Kangaroo Essence, 00:08:42.922 --> 00:08:44.936 Strong Horses, Bull's Genital, 00:08:44.986 --> 00:08:47.206 and Bigger Longer More Time More Sperms, 00:08:47.327 --> 00:08:49.340 -which is just... -(AUDIENCE LAUGHS) 00:08:49.415 --> 00:08:50.534 ...immaculate. 00:08:50.609 --> 00:08:53.253 AMC, please bring back Mad Men, 00:08:53.333 --> 00:08:56.208 because I so badly want to see an entire episode 00:08:56.308 --> 00:08:57.508 about Don Draper pitching 00:08:57.608 --> 00:09:00.786 a Bigger Longer More Time More Sperms ad campaign. 00:09:01.145 --> 00:09:02.370 "It's not a dick pill. 00:09:02.445 --> 00:09:03.722 It's a carousel." 00:09:03.772 --> 00:09:04.647 (AUDIENCE LAUGHS) 00:09:04.722 --> 00:09:06.007 What I'm saying is, 00:09:06.192 --> 00:09:08.927 these pills can be subject to far less oversight 00:09:08.982 --> 00:09:12.085 and be much more dangerous than you would reasonably hope. 00:09:12.152 --> 00:09:14.583 And that is also true of the next product 00:09:14.708 --> 00:09:16.418 that we're going to be looking at tonight, kratom. 00:09:16.502 --> 00:09:18.313 It's made from the leaves of the kratom tree 00:09:18.413 --> 00:09:19.426 in Southeast Asia. 00:09:19.513 --> 00:09:21.590 In its natural form and smaller doses, 00:09:21.690 --> 00:09:24.476 it's generally considered safe and acts as a stimulant. 00:09:24.751 --> 00:09:25.844 But in higher doses, 00:09:25.994 --> 00:09:27.200 it becomes more of a sedative 00:09:27.267 --> 00:09:29.239 with addictive, opioid-like properties. 00:09:29.431 --> 00:09:31.366 Kratom's become increasingly popular, 00:09:31.438 --> 00:09:34.574 with millions of people estimated to use it nationwide. 00:09:34.641 --> 00:09:36.438 And it speaks to its growing popularity 00:09:36.738 --> 00:09:38.598 that at trade shows for smoke shops, 00:09:38.773 --> 00:09:40.584 kratom companies will happily brag 00:09:40.647 --> 00:09:41.960 about their expansion plans. 00:09:42.210 --> 00:09:43.783 COLBY HENDERSON: This show is huge for kratom now. 00:09:43.854 --> 00:09:45.697 We just got into edibles 00:09:45.760 --> 00:09:46.933 and some drinks and things like that. 00:09:47.475 --> 00:09:49.618 Jelly 7-oh Botanicals 00:09:49.693 --> 00:09:51.958 is our newest line of kratom gummies. 00:09:52.029 --> 00:09:53.460 CAMERON BOOTH: I'm with this company, Hydroxie. 00:09:53.593 --> 00:09:55.495 We're a single-alkaloid kratom extract company, 00:09:55.991 --> 00:09:57.259 and we’re gonna be the strongest, 00:09:57.334 --> 00:09:58.832 most purest on the market right now. 00:09:59.566 --> 00:10:02.702 We're the first extract enhanced powder and capsule on the market. 00:10:02.808 --> 00:10:04.383 We want it to be a soccer mom brand that, 00:10:04.458 --> 00:10:05.805 you know, just to get your energy in the morning 00:10:05.905 --> 00:10:08.114 instead of something else, you know what I mean? 00:10:08.475 --> 00:10:10.076 Yeah, I do know what you mean, bro. 00:10:10.143 --> 00:10:11.010 (AUDIENCE LAUGHS) 00:10:11.077 --> 00:10:12.011 And I've got to say, 00:10:12.078 --> 00:10:13.580 there's a lot that is off-putting there, 00:10:13.680 --> 00:10:15.952 from the way Colby here talks about soccer moms, 00:10:16.182 --> 00:10:18.171 to this guy being so wet, 00:10:18.496 --> 00:10:21.533 to the unappealing flavors of kratom on display, 00:10:21.608 --> 00:10:23.823 including Fresh Grape, Mocha Taffy, 00:10:23.915 --> 00:10:25.116 and Dave's Brew. 00:10:25.195 --> 00:10:27.089 If your product is referring to Dave, 00:10:27.189 --> 00:10:29.129 and I don't know who the fuck Dave is... 00:10:29.195 --> 00:10:30.117 (AUDIENCE LAUGHS) 00:10:30.192 --> 00:10:32.335 ...I'm not feeling inherently confident in it. 00:10:32.932 --> 00:10:34.238 Kratom products are usually marketed 00:10:34.288 --> 00:10:36.365 as an energy booster, a mood lifter, 00:10:36.440 --> 00:10:37.370 or a pain reducer, 00:10:37.437 --> 00:10:39.376 but there are a number of potential problems, 00:10:39.576 --> 00:10:40.502 starting with the fact that 00:10:40.573 --> 00:10:42.713 because many states have no requirement 00:10:42.809 --> 00:10:44.564 for labeling when it comes to these products, 00:10:44.714 --> 00:10:48.268 it can be hard to know exactly what you are buying. 00:10:48.628 --> 00:10:51.271 When the Tampa Bay Times ran an investigation on kratom, 00:10:51.346 --> 00:10:52.719 they tested 20 products, 00:10:52.785 --> 00:10:55.442 and while some came in proper packaging, like these, 00:10:55.517 --> 00:10:57.790 others, like this one, labeled "Trainwreck," 00:10:58.128 --> 00:11:00.180 were just powder in a bag. 00:11:00.593 --> 00:11:02.562 And if you think "Trainwreck" looks alarming, 00:11:02.629 --> 00:11:04.443 may I introduce you to "Red." 00:11:04.531 --> 00:11:06.403 -Just "Red." -(AUDIENCE LAUGHS) 00:11:06.553 --> 00:11:09.882 A bag of something with the word "red" sharpied on it. 00:11:09.957 --> 00:11:10.857 (AUDIENCE LAUGHS) 00:11:10.937 --> 00:11:12.626 The Times found that of the products they tested, 00:11:12.701 --> 00:11:14.744 five had no information about ingredients, 00:11:14.844 --> 00:11:16.743 11 had no dosing instructions, 00:11:16.809 --> 00:11:18.824 and 13 had no details about potency, 00:11:18.945 --> 00:11:21.347 which probably shouldn't be that surprising, given, again, 00:11:21.481 --> 00:11:24.851 one of those products was a bag of something called "Red." 00:11:24.951 --> 00:11:25.852 (AUDIENCE LAUGHS) 00:11:25.919 --> 00:11:28.388 And the thing is, even when products are packaged 00:11:28.521 --> 00:11:30.135 and have dosing information, 00:11:30.235 --> 00:11:33.197 the packaging itself may not encourage proper usage, 00:11:33.272 --> 00:11:34.598 as this expert points out. 00:11:34.892 --> 00:11:37.130 Can you read this label here? 00:11:37.636 --> 00:11:38.998 -So at the very bottom... -(LAUGHS) 00:11:39.086 --> 00:11:41.405 ...it says to not consume more than one-third 00:11:41.455 --> 00:11:43.503 of that bottle within a 24-hour period. 00:11:43.912 --> 00:11:45.300 But it's sold as a shot. 00:11:45.759 --> 00:11:47.219 -Right! -(AUDIENCE LAUGHS) 00:11:47.273 --> 00:11:48.887 And that's clearly a problem, 00:11:48.942 --> 00:11:51.473 because everybody knows a bottle's type 00:11:51.648 --> 00:11:53.259 dictates how you drink its contents. 00:11:53.309 --> 00:11:54.781 If it's in a tiny shot bottle, 00:11:54.847 --> 00:11:55.919 you drink it all at once. 00:11:55.994 --> 00:11:58.551 If it's in a big, tall bottle, you pour it into a glass. 00:11:58.610 --> 00:12:00.178 And if it's in a Bud Light lime bottle, 00:12:00.253 --> 00:12:01.733 you throw it directly into the trash. 00:12:01.783 --> 00:12:04.970 These are the basic rules of beverage consumption. 00:12:05.045 --> 00:12:06.059 (AUDIENCE LAUGHS, APPLAUDS) 00:12:06.125 --> 00:12:08.161 We even found one kratom-derived product 00:12:08.294 --> 00:12:10.296 that claims a single tablet contains 00:12:10.363 --> 00:12:11.485 eight servings, 00:12:11.610 --> 00:12:13.920 meaning you'd have to break it into eight pieces, 00:12:14.217 --> 00:12:16.040 even though it's only scored into four. 00:12:16.115 --> 00:12:16.995 (AUDIENCE LAUGHS) 00:12:17.070 --> 00:12:18.605 And the thing is, because these products 00:12:18.671 --> 00:12:20.185 can seem low-risk, 00:12:20.260 --> 00:12:21.908 people can feel way too comfortable 00:12:21.975 --> 00:12:24.122 taking much more than the recommended dose. 00:12:24.477 --> 00:12:27.642 Just listen to this exchange that Joe Rogan had with a guest. 00:12:27.842 --> 00:12:30.980 I was on this discussion about kratom. 00:12:31.055 --> 00:12:32.118 Are you familiar with this? 00:12:32.218 --> 00:12:33.553 -I'm on it right now. -Oh, wow. 00:12:33.620 --> 00:12:34.716 Yeah, I just took some. I-- 00:12:34.816 --> 00:12:36.297 I fucked my knee up the other day. 00:12:36.384 --> 00:12:37.334 I did something, 00:12:37.590 --> 00:12:40.347 and, uh, it's been stiff and painful, 00:12:40.435 --> 00:12:43.116 so I iced it before I came here, and then I just took, uh... 00:12:43.491 --> 00:12:44.551 took six of them. 00:12:44.639 --> 00:12:45.944 -See what happens. -HAMILTON MORRIS: Wow. 00:12:46.044 --> 00:12:47.580 -I took ten once. -HAMILTON: Oof. 00:12:47.838 --> 00:12:51.004 Now I get why people might think it's a drug. 00:12:51.304 --> 00:12:52.905 -Well, it is a drug. -Yeah, for sure, 00:12:53.006 --> 00:12:54.374 but when I took four, 00:12:54.744 --> 00:12:56.342 I was like-- Well, I took two for-- 00:12:56.409 --> 00:12:57.815 The first time I took it, I took two, 00:12:57.865 --> 00:12:58.945 and a couple times I took two. 00:12:59.020 --> 00:13:00.450 I'm like, "Feels like a mild stimulant." 00:13:00.550 --> 00:13:02.803 But then when you get into the range 00:13:02.878 --> 00:13:04.838 of eight to ten pills, 00:13:04.913 --> 00:13:07.408 it's like, oh, this-- this will fuck you up. 00:13:07.633 --> 00:13:08.655 This stuff. 00:13:09.455 --> 00:13:12.262 The stuff I take is Urban Ice Organics, 00:13:12.458 --> 00:13:13.760 and, um... 00:13:15.699 --> 00:13:18.635 See, it says-- it says, "Take two." 00:13:18.731 --> 00:13:20.199 (AUDIENCE LAUGHS) 00:13:20.354 --> 00:13:21.301 Joe. 00:13:22.113 --> 00:13:24.570 Joey, Josephine. 00:13:24.667 --> 00:13:25.767 (AUDIENCE LAUGHS) 00:13:25.842 --> 00:13:26.973 What the fuck are you doing? 00:13:27.052 --> 00:13:27.927 (AUDIENCE LAUGHS) 00:13:28.002 --> 00:13:29.621 You didn't even know the name of the pill 00:13:29.696 --> 00:13:31.381 or how many you were supposed to take. 00:13:31.456 --> 00:13:32.812 What did you know? 00:13:33.504 --> 00:13:34.693 Because it seems the main knowledge 00:13:34.743 --> 00:13:36.294 you had about those pills before taking them 00:13:36.344 --> 00:13:38.051 was that they were pills. 00:13:38.113 --> 00:13:39.188 (AUDIENCE LAUGHS) 00:13:39.252 --> 00:13:40.764 And that was apparently enough for you to happily 00:13:40.839 --> 00:13:42.355 toss half a dozen of them back. 00:13:42.855 --> 00:13:44.311 But it really is worth knowing 00:13:44.386 --> 00:13:47.560 exactly what you're ingesting and the potential dangers 00:13:47.627 --> 00:13:49.850 because the truth is, kratom products 00:13:50.029 --> 00:13:52.510 can be addictive, as this woman found. 00:13:53.069 --> 00:13:56.706 REPORTER 2: Amy has been addicted to kratom for nearly a decade, 00:13:57.036 --> 00:14:00.443 and she didn't buy it from a dealer or off the street. 00:14:02.208 --> 00:14:04.247 Instead, she got these tiny bottles 00:14:04.322 --> 00:14:06.900 of kratom extract, known as "K Shots," 00:14:07.213 --> 00:14:10.280 from a place many of you frequent every day. 00:14:10.355 --> 00:14:11.455 AMY: I worked in the gas station 00:14:11.530 --> 00:14:12.435 behind my house, 00:14:13.041 --> 00:14:15.154 trying not to take opiates 'cause opiates are bad, 00:14:15.588 --> 00:14:17.494 and it was in a little display right beside me. 00:14:17.569 --> 00:14:19.512 Ninety percent of my money goes to this. 00:14:19.762 --> 00:14:21.198 REPORTER 2: The average price of kratom 00:14:21.260 --> 00:14:24.530 is around 15 to 25 dollars per bottle 00:14:24.630 --> 00:14:26.428 or for the two-pack of pills. 00:14:26.766 --> 00:14:30.670 Amy admits she spent more than 100,000 dollars 00:14:30.770 --> 00:14:32.742 in one year on this substance. 00:14:32.905 --> 00:14:34.578 If you think about it, that is the price 00:14:34.640 --> 00:14:38.698 of four Honda Civic LX sedans or a high-end RV. 00:14:38.778 --> 00:14:40.934 (AUDIENCE LAUGHS) 00:14:41.034 --> 00:14:43.082 I mean, yeah. 00:14:44.117 --> 00:14:45.485 I guess that is true. 00:14:46.619 --> 00:14:48.554 But it's also a pretty strange way to illustrate 00:14:48.621 --> 00:14:50.923 the purchasing power of 100,000 dollars. 00:14:51.023 --> 00:14:51.958 (AUDIENCE LAUGHS) 00:14:52.053 --> 00:14:53.192 Because you don't expect the takeaway 00:14:53.259 --> 00:14:55.132 from that story to be, "If this woman wasn't addicted 00:14:55.194 --> 00:14:58.160 to kratom, she'd be rolling in Honda Civics right now." 00:14:58.235 --> 00:14:59.110 (AUDIENCE LAUGHS) 00:14:59.165 --> 00:15:00.178 Also, for what it's worth, 00:15:00.253 --> 00:15:02.205 I don't need the news to tell me the price 00:15:02.255 --> 00:15:04.074 of high-end recreational vehicles. 00:15:04.404 --> 00:15:06.619 I'm well aware of the cost, and so, by the way, 00:15:06.719 --> 00:15:08.470 -is Clarence Thomas. -(AUDIENCE CHEERS, APPLAUDS) 00:15:08.541 --> 00:15:10.597 Now, a key reason... 00:15:11.177 --> 00:15:13.392 some kratom products have the potential for addiction 00:15:13.446 --> 00:15:15.948 is because certain components of the kratom plant, 00:15:16.182 --> 00:15:17.583 like mitragynine, 00:15:17.788 --> 00:15:21.374 interact with the same receptors in your brain as opioids. 00:15:21.724 --> 00:15:24.227 And while there is mitragynine in kratom in its natural state, 00:15:24.327 --> 00:15:26.346 some manufacturers will concentrate it 00:15:26.596 --> 00:15:28.294 in their products, and others will go even further 00:15:28.394 --> 00:15:30.400 by synthesizing a compound from kratom 00:15:30.463 --> 00:15:33.720 called 7-hydroxymitragynine, or 7-OH. 00:15:34.070 --> 00:15:35.572 It's a substance that researchers have found 00:15:35.672 --> 00:15:37.395 binds to the opioid receptors 00:15:37.470 --> 00:15:39.492 at least seven times stronger than morphine. 00:15:39.705 --> 00:15:40.673 As one researcher put it, 00:15:40.740 --> 00:15:42.378 "The difference between natural kratom 00:15:42.478 --> 00:15:44.310 and 7-OH is like the difference 00:15:44.377 --> 00:15:46.015 between drinking a Miller Lite 00:15:46.090 --> 00:15:48.281 versus drinking 12 ounces of Everclear." 00:15:48.815 --> 00:15:50.550 Some products have now even ditched 00:15:50.650 --> 00:15:52.014 the word "kratom" completely 00:15:52.114 --> 00:15:54.274 and just put 7-OH front and center, 00:15:54.349 --> 00:15:56.392 and sales have exploded. 00:15:56.722 --> 00:15:57.826 Here is the head of one company, 00:15:57.901 --> 00:16:00.460 who expanded from CBD products to 7-OH, 00:16:00.713 --> 00:16:03.733 marveling at just how quickly his new product line took off. 00:16:04.300 --> 00:16:06.945 I've truly never seen a product 00:16:07.166 --> 00:16:09.923 with the type of sales this has. It, uh... 00:16:10.468 --> 00:16:13.693 You know, we had a 10-year lead with Cannabis products, 00:16:14.173 --> 00:16:18.540 and I've just never seen anything move like this does. 00:16:18.615 --> 00:16:22.815 We are actually doing more sales with 7-OH 00:16:22.882 --> 00:16:25.313 than we are all the Cannabis products combined. 00:16:25.932 --> 00:16:26.886 -Wow. -And we're talking about 00:16:26.953 --> 00:16:28.488 something we've been doing for a few months 00:16:28.554 --> 00:16:29.455 versus a decade. 00:16:29.822 --> 00:16:30.790 Yeah, it turns out, 00:16:30.890 --> 00:16:32.425 7-OH products are as popular 00:16:32.492 --> 00:16:34.864 as that man's shirt is distractingly red. 00:16:35.532 --> 00:16:36.829 That is Vince Sanders, 00:16:36.896 --> 00:16:38.698 one of 7-OH's loudest proponents. 00:16:38.764 --> 00:16:40.846 Fun fact, he was once a car salesman 00:16:40.921 --> 00:16:43.198 slash large-scale illegal marijuana dealer. 00:16:43.269 --> 00:16:46.000 And even funner fact, after he was arrested in 2000, 00:16:46.150 --> 00:16:47.185 his attorney argued in court 00:16:47.285 --> 00:16:49.929 to void his prison term, citing, among other things, 00:16:50.009 --> 00:16:51.365 the tax revenue lost from having 00:16:51.456 --> 00:16:54.860 -"the number one Acura salesman in the US behind bars." -(AUDIENCE LAUGHS) 00:16:54.960 --> 00:16:56.682 And "I shouldn't go to prison 00:16:56.749 --> 00:16:59.318 because I'm America's number one Acura salesman" 00:16:59.622 --> 00:17:02.088 might be the saddest sentence of all time. 00:17:02.688 --> 00:17:04.557 Aside from, "I shouldn't go to prison because 00:17:04.644 --> 00:17:06.656 I'm America's number two Acura salesman." 00:17:06.731 --> 00:17:07.727 (AUDIENCE LAUGHS) 00:17:07.793 --> 00:17:09.862 And while some manufacturers position their products 00:17:09.929 --> 00:17:12.936 as pain relievers or even as an off-ramp 00:17:13.061 --> 00:17:15.104 for people from more dangerous drugs, 00:17:15.401 --> 00:17:19.092 just as many seem to market them with a knowing wink to consumers 00:17:19.192 --> 00:17:21.428 about their similarity to illicit substances. 00:17:21.507 --> 00:17:24.572 There is Dopium, which is pretty on the nose, 00:17:24.847 --> 00:17:27.667 but also Opia, and Perks and Bars, 00:17:27.967 --> 00:17:30.428 as well as Roxy, Droxy, and Moxie. 00:17:30.883 --> 00:17:32.451 And the addictive nature of these products 00:17:32.518 --> 00:17:34.182 can be especially rough for people like this woman, 00:17:34.282 --> 00:17:36.693 who'd already been through an opioid addiction 00:17:37.218 --> 00:17:38.803 and thought, in 7-OH, 00:17:39.028 --> 00:17:40.613 that she'd found something safe. 00:17:41.193 --> 00:17:43.429 BELLA CARACTA: This month, Madison McManness found herself 00:17:43.496 --> 00:17:46.753 in a place she never wanted to see again, drug rehab. 00:17:46.823 --> 00:17:48.301 MADISON MCMANNESS: Really disappointed in myself. 00:17:48.363 --> 00:17:50.281 I didn't think that I would be there again. 00:17:50.903 --> 00:17:51.837 Um... 00:17:52.672 --> 00:17:54.640 Yeah, it was really hard, you know, um... 00:17:55.174 --> 00:17:57.647 lying in the detox for, I think, three days, 00:17:57.722 --> 00:17:58.998 just catatonic. 00:17:59.548 --> 00:18:02.836 My body was just-- I mean, everything was on fire. It hurt. 00:18:02.936 --> 00:18:04.350 I just didn't want to do it anymore. 00:18:04.437 --> 00:18:07.415 BELLA: She was six and a half years clean from heroin 00:18:07.515 --> 00:18:10.156 when a friend suggested she try 7-OH 00:18:10.222 --> 00:18:11.502 to help with anxiety. 00:18:11.627 --> 00:18:13.138 Products like these. 00:18:13.225 --> 00:18:15.623 As soon as I took that 7-OH, it was like 00:18:16.128 --> 00:18:17.863 taking heroin again for the first time. 00:18:17.964 --> 00:18:18.831 Wow. 00:18:18.931 --> 00:18:20.600 It was like taking heroin. 00:18:20.663 --> 00:18:21.988 Look, you expect people 00:18:22.238 --> 00:18:24.208 to say that about doing things like fentanyl, 00:18:24.308 --> 00:18:26.339 or watching a Halloween dog parade, 00:18:26.405 --> 00:18:29.408 or getting the push alert that Henry Kissinger died. 00:18:29.475 --> 00:18:31.544 Inject that straight into my veins 00:18:31.777 --> 00:18:33.412 -until I happily die. -(AUDIENCE APPLAUDS) 00:18:33.479 --> 00:18:37.028 But not about taking a drug that's readily available 00:18:37.083 --> 00:18:38.863 at gas station convenience stores. 00:18:39.185 --> 00:18:41.708 In working on this story, we've seen so many clips 00:18:41.858 --> 00:18:43.568 of people talking about how hard it is 00:18:43.668 --> 00:18:44.790 to quit these products. 00:18:44.857 --> 00:18:47.827 Yeah, some in this industry will try to direct people away 00:18:47.893 --> 00:18:49.758 from those examples and instead tell them 00:18:49.833 --> 00:18:51.109 to focus on the positive. 00:18:51.277 --> 00:18:52.298 Like this guy in Mississippi 00:18:52.365 --> 00:18:54.500 whose business is called Dr. Kratom. 00:18:54.600 --> 00:18:55.534 If you Google "kratom" 00:18:55.601 --> 00:18:57.100 and you Google, "What are the downfalls? 00:18:57.175 --> 00:18:58.437 What are the negative effects of kratom?" 00:18:58.504 --> 00:18:59.959 that's what you're gonna get is the downfalls 00:19:00.034 --> 00:19:01.311 and the negative effects of kratom. 00:19:01.661 --> 00:19:03.705 If you Google, "What are the pros and the positives 00:19:03.780 --> 00:19:05.107 and the good points of kratom?" 00:19:05.177 --> 00:19:06.082 that's what you're gonna get. 00:19:06.145 --> 00:19:07.692 You gotta-- You gotta learn how to Google. 00:19:07.742 --> 00:19:08.617 (AUDIENCE LAUGHS) 00:19:08.667 --> 00:19:11.475 I mean Google non-biasedly and you'll get the truth. 00:19:12.288 --> 00:19:14.565 -Sure, but... -(AUDIENCE LAUGHS) 00:19:14.654 --> 00:19:17.327 You know, you can also say that about anything, right? 00:19:17.619 --> 00:19:19.197 If you Google, "What are the good points 00:19:19.272 --> 00:19:20.747 of mountain lion attacks?" 00:19:21.360 --> 00:19:22.762 you might find some upsides 00:19:22.862 --> 00:19:24.263 to getting mauled by a mountain lion, 00:19:24.330 --> 00:19:26.477 though the results may also be from websites 00:19:26.577 --> 00:19:28.438 secretly made by mountain lions. 00:19:28.488 --> 00:19:29.363 (AUDIENCE LAUGHS) 00:19:29.438 --> 00:19:31.170 And then you're really just getting the mountain lion's 00:19:31.237 --> 00:19:32.438 version of the truth. 00:19:33.239 --> 00:19:34.753 But the thing is, if you don't just rely 00:19:34.807 --> 00:19:36.204 on "how you Google," 00:19:36.542 --> 00:19:38.606 troubling patterns do begin to emerge. 00:19:38.734 --> 00:19:40.559 When the Washington Post went through government statistics, 00:19:40.659 --> 00:19:42.477 it found that in a recent three-year span, 00:19:42.677 --> 00:19:44.687 medical examiners and coroners had listed kratom 00:19:44.787 --> 00:19:48.020 as contributing to or causing at least 4,100 deaths 00:19:48.087 --> 00:19:49.555 in 44 states and D.C. 00:19:49.809 --> 00:19:53.605 Now, to be fair, most cases did involve other substances, 00:19:53.680 --> 00:19:56.324 but kratom was listed as the sole substance 00:19:56.399 --> 00:19:58.735 causing death in 182 of those cases. 00:19:58.835 --> 00:20:01.137 And there is every chance that that is an undercount, 00:20:01.525 --> 00:20:03.027 given these substances are new enough 00:20:03.122 --> 00:20:05.575 that death investigations don't always test for 00:20:05.650 --> 00:20:07.560 or detect kratom or 7-OH. 00:20:07.835 --> 00:20:10.076 The fact is, despite how ubiquitous 00:20:10.142 --> 00:20:11.255 these products are, 00:20:11.705 --> 00:20:14.780 they really haven't been tested properly for safety, 00:20:15.176 --> 00:20:17.529 as the former number one Acura salesman in the country... 00:20:17.604 --> 00:20:19.789 -(AUDIENCE LAUGHS) -...readily admits. 00:20:20.064 --> 00:20:23.660 ISABELLA LEDONNE: So, 7-OH hasn't had any, like, human trials, 00:20:23.760 --> 00:20:25.186 like, for regulations or anything like that? 00:20:25.261 --> 00:20:26.496 That is correct. Yeah, I mean, 00:20:26.592 --> 00:20:28.064 the human trials have been 00:20:28.761 --> 00:20:29.962 people choosing to use it. 00:20:30.396 --> 00:20:31.630 -(AUDIENCE GROANS) -Look, look, 00:20:31.944 --> 00:20:34.231 I hate to second-guess that man. 00:20:34.308 --> 00:20:35.631 I'm afraid of the impact it would have 00:20:35.706 --> 00:20:36.702 on the global economy. 00:20:36.756 --> 00:20:40.109 But that's not how human trials work. 00:20:40.434 --> 00:20:43.604 That's just selling people shit, then seeing what happens. 00:20:43.779 --> 00:20:45.244 And what happened in his case 00:20:45.431 --> 00:20:48.109 is that the Missouri AG has sued his company 00:20:48.209 --> 00:20:50.011 for deceptively marketing 7-OH and kratom 00:20:50.086 --> 00:20:51.245 as "safe products." 00:20:51.520 --> 00:20:53.031 Incidentally, during that investigation, 00:20:53.106 --> 00:20:54.653 it was noted that his company had recalled 00:20:54.787 --> 00:20:56.934 more than three million pills 00:20:57.259 --> 00:20:59.125 after a bottle of tablets that were marketed 00:20:59.212 --> 00:21:02.315 as containing seven and a half milligrams of 7-OH 00:21:02.490 --> 00:21:05.143 -turned out to contain around 34 milligrams... -(AUDIENCE GROANS) 00:21:05.268 --> 00:21:07.299 ...over four times as much. 00:21:07.366 --> 00:21:09.368 And while apparently, I have to tell you, 00:21:09.435 --> 00:21:12.467 the company insists it makes "substantial efforts 00:21:12.571 --> 00:21:14.335 to ensure its products are safe and reliable," 00:21:14.410 --> 00:21:15.745 and that "this appears 00:21:15.870 --> 00:21:17.422 to have been an isolated outlier," 00:21:17.510 --> 00:21:19.178 first, I think we might disagree 00:21:19.245 --> 00:21:21.000 on what the word "substantial" means, 00:21:21.413 --> 00:21:24.884 and that statement "appears" much less reassuring to me 00:21:24.984 --> 00:21:26.873 than I think they want it to sound, 00:21:27.086 --> 00:21:29.255 especially given 34 milligrams 00:21:29.355 --> 00:21:31.861 is more than double the maximum recommended dosage 00:21:31.961 --> 00:21:33.058 on the package. 00:21:33.263 --> 00:21:35.448 And double the maximum dosage 00:21:35.623 --> 00:21:38.076 is one of the more alarming reasons for a recall. 00:21:38.130 --> 00:21:40.245 It's right up there with "it's actually horse meat" 00:21:40.366 --> 00:21:43.197 -and "sometimes it just explodes." -(AUDIENCE LAUGHS) 00:21:43.269 --> 00:21:45.275 Oh, shit, oh, shit, another one's gone! 00:21:45.350 --> 00:21:47.406 Oh, you know what? I'm sure it's fine. 00:21:47.506 --> 00:21:48.641 Elon's a genius. 00:21:48.707 --> 00:21:49.675 (AUDIENCE LAUGHS) 00:21:49.742 --> 00:21:53.132 Now, I should say, some states are taking action. 00:21:53.345 --> 00:21:55.314 For example, as of January, all of these 00:21:55.487 --> 00:21:57.917 had some form of regulation on 7-OH or kratom, 00:21:58.012 --> 00:22:00.553 ranging from age restrictions and labeling requirements 00:22:00.619 --> 00:22:01.966 to outright bans. 00:22:02.166 --> 00:22:05.286 But I admit, this is complicated. 00:22:05.686 --> 00:22:07.321 Because first, as we've talked about 00:22:07.421 --> 00:22:09.807 multiple times before on this show, in general, 00:22:10.041 --> 00:22:12.035 full-on prohibition and criminalization 00:22:12.110 --> 00:22:13.819 just isn't great drug policy. 00:22:14.169 --> 00:22:16.739 And second, when it comes to this particular industry, 00:22:16.839 --> 00:22:18.566 whenever one drug is banned, 00:22:18.866 --> 00:22:20.660 another can quickly take its place, 00:22:20.739 --> 00:22:21.740 all of which brings us 00:22:21.811 --> 00:22:23.454 to our final type of gas station drug, 00:22:23.542 --> 00:22:24.510 tianeptine. 00:22:24.577 --> 00:22:26.045 Remember that guy you saw earlier 00:22:26.111 --> 00:22:28.059 with the big pile of bottles? 00:22:28.209 --> 00:22:29.443 Those weren't kratom. 00:22:29.669 --> 00:22:31.821 He'd already kicked an addiction to that 00:22:31.896 --> 00:22:33.222 after his state banned it, 00:22:33.272 --> 00:22:36.200 only for him to then get hooked on tianeptine. 00:22:36.437 --> 00:22:38.212 It's actually sold as a pharmaceutical in Europe, 00:22:38.287 --> 00:22:39.216 as an antidepressant, 00:22:39.312 --> 00:22:41.497 but has not been approved by the FDA 00:22:41.547 --> 00:22:42.962 for any medical use here. 00:22:43.042 --> 00:22:44.867 Instead, it's been marketed as a "nootropic" 00:22:44.964 --> 00:22:46.736 or a "cognitive enhancer," 00:22:46.836 --> 00:22:49.697 in products like Neptune's Fix, Za Za, and Tianaa. 00:22:49.822 --> 00:22:52.091 And I will say, it is not a great sign 00:22:52.316 --> 00:22:55.678 that tianeptine quickly picked up this catchy nickname. 00:22:56.105 --> 00:22:57.305 MARY CALVI: You can find it online 00:22:57.405 --> 00:22:59.958 at convenience stores, even gas stations. 00:23:00.108 --> 00:23:01.881 But experts are sounding the alarm, 00:23:01.981 --> 00:23:05.951 calling what's in these bottles and pills "gas station heroin." 00:23:06.402 --> 00:23:08.584 -Yeah, "gas station heroin." -(AUDIENCE GROANS) 00:23:08.709 --> 00:23:11.210 And I know on its face that sounds like the title 00:23:11.310 --> 00:23:13.559 of a pretty good Lana Del Rey song, but... 00:23:13.638 --> 00:23:14.560 (AUDIENCE LAUGHS) 00:23:14.615 --> 00:23:16.966 ...it's also a real nickname for a widely available drug 00:23:17.029 --> 00:23:18.564 that can be incredibly dangerous, 00:23:18.797 --> 00:23:21.512 because tianeptine’s been linked to hundreds of reports of harm, 00:23:21.612 --> 00:23:23.806 including overdoses and deaths. 00:23:23.906 --> 00:23:26.238 Alabama actually banned it a few years ago, 00:23:26.305 --> 00:23:28.094 but in true whack-a-mole style, 00:23:28.269 --> 00:23:32.011 a similar product called Phrenze quickly replaced it on shelves, 00:23:32.111 --> 00:23:34.148 with at least one store there even labeling it as, 00:23:34.313 --> 00:23:35.926 "From the maker of Tianaa." 00:23:36.586 --> 00:23:38.754 And even when states pass laws, the truth is, 00:23:38.817 --> 00:23:40.386 they don't always get well-enforced, 00:23:40.452 --> 00:23:42.258 meaning that tianeptine still wound up 00:23:42.354 --> 00:23:44.410 sitting on shelves for people to buy. 00:23:44.660 --> 00:23:46.737 And that has led to some tragic outcomes, 00:23:46.862 --> 00:23:49.365 like this story from a few years ago in Ohio. 00:23:49.862 --> 00:23:51.876 CHUCK GOUDIE: It was at this Midwestern gas station 00:23:51.976 --> 00:23:53.911 that Chris Haggarty bought a bottle 00:23:54.033 --> 00:23:55.254 of Neptune's Fix, 00:23:55.329 --> 00:23:57.836 even though the product contained tianeptine 00:23:57.937 --> 00:24:00.435 banned a year earlier by the state of Ohio. 00:24:00.510 --> 00:24:03.821 (CRYING) I miss him dearly. 00:24:04.196 --> 00:24:05.481 CHUCK: In an interview with the I-Team 00:24:05.556 --> 00:24:06.812 almost four months ago, 00:24:06.912 --> 00:24:09.861 Haggarty's mother billed "gas station heroin" 00:24:09.915 --> 00:24:11.220 as "death in a bottle." 00:24:11.295 --> 00:24:13.264 Fifteen dollars a bottle. 00:24:13.514 --> 00:24:16.526 How many people bought it besides my son? 00:24:16.655 --> 00:24:19.237 It was for sale at the gas station, just... 00:24:20.262 --> 00:24:22.316 right next to the lottery tickets 00:24:22.391 --> 00:24:23.387 and the cigarettes. 00:24:23.904 --> 00:24:24.967 Yeah, that is terrible. 00:24:25.042 --> 00:24:26.752 And it is hard to believe that something 00:24:26.827 --> 00:24:28.796 so immediately dangerous 00:24:29.068 --> 00:24:31.682 could be sold at the gas station next to lottery tickets. 00:24:32.071 --> 00:24:33.677 It'd be like finding out that PetSmart 00:24:33.772 --> 00:24:35.970 sells hand grenades next to the hamsters. 00:24:36.237 --> 00:24:38.110 Come on, PetSmart! 00:24:38.602 --> 00:24:40.905 You know everyone always swings by the hamsters. 00:24:41.017 --> 00:24:43.378 You're getting people at their weakest point. 00:24:43.453 --> 00:24:44.683 (AUDIENCE LAUGHS) 00:24:44.750 --> 00:24:46.906 And frustratingly, behind closed doors, 00:24:47.106 --> 00:24:49.021 some in this industry seem well aware 00:24:49.085 --> 00:24:50.622 that the products they're selling can be dangerous. 00:24:50.710 --> 00:24:52.002 The reason that I know that 00:24:52.091 --> 00:24:54.605 is that one of our producers actually went to a trade show 00:24:54.680 --> 00:24:55.865 like the one you saw earlier, 00:24:55.915 --> 00:24:57.262 and to answer your first question, 00:24:57.363 --> 00:24:59.461 yeah, of course she saw a kratom-themed Cybertruck 00:24:59.531 --> 00:25:00.498 in the parking lot. 00:25:00.561 --> 00:25:02.346 -(AUDIENCE LAUGHS) -Of course she saw that. 00:25:02.401 --> 00:25:05.032 You could practically hear the Limp Bizkit music 00:25:05.157 --> 00:25:07.006 -wafting out of it. -(AUDIENCE LAUGHS) 00:25:07.306 --> 00:25:09.996 The whole convention was honestly a pretty good glimpse 00:25:10.075 --> 00:25:12.077 into an industry clearly already planning 00:25:12.177 --> 00:25:13.282 for what comes next. 00:25:13.357 --> 00:25:16.315 A lot of vendors seemed ready for 7-OH to be banned 00:25:16.415 --> 00:25:18.647 as they were already marketing newer products like this one, 00:25:18.722 --> 00:25:19.985 whose marketing material said, 00:25:20.047 --> 00:25:21.332 “The future of kratom,” 00:25:21.432 --> 00:25:23.401 “Compliant in all kratom legal states,” 00:25:23.601 --> 00:25:25.236 “7-hydroxy replacement,” 00:25:25.491 --> 00:25:27.880 "Three to four times stronger than 7-OH.” 00:25:28.327 --> 00:25:30.095 She also spoke to a rep from a distribution company 00:25:30.149 --> 00:25:33.194 that sells boner pills who got surprisingly honest 00:25:33.344 --> 00:25:35.063 about the fact that while some of their products 00:25:35.138 --> 00:25:36.268 are kind of bullshit, 00:25:36.568 --> 00:25:38.003 others could be actively dangerous. 00:25:38.074 --> 00:25:38.971 Take a listen. 00:25:55.684 --> 00:25:56.559 Wow. 00:25:56.692 --> 00:25:59.979 "I wouldn't advise selling these to people over 50." 00:26:00.404 --> 00:26:02.073 That is a reasonable thing to say 00:26:02.173 --> 00:26:04.750 if you're selling tickets to an Olivia Rodrigo concert. 00:26:04.825 --> 00:26:05.731 (AUDIENCE LAUGHS) 00:26:05.831 --> 00:26:06.832 But not when you're talking 00:26:06.932 --> 00:26:08.738 about your company's unregulated dick pills. 00:26:08.813 --> 00:26:09.964 And it does feel like, 00:26:10.089 --> 00:26:12.104 "Don't consume if you're over 50," 00:26:12.271 --> 00:26:13.138 is the kind of thing 00:26:13.194 --> 00:26:14.519 that shouldn't be whispered at trade shows, 00:26:14.569 --> 00:26:17.209 but slapped in massive lettering on your packaging. 00:26:17.676 --> 00:26:19.765 This is a photo of that man's table, 00:26:19.840 --> 00:26:21.334 and these are some of the pills 00:26:21.413 --> 00:26:22.894 that he told us were "super potent." 00:26:22.994 --> 00:26:25.488 They're called Mr. Bull tablets, and their tagline is, 00:26:25.613 --> 00:26:26.985 "Do it like pro." 00:26:27.365 --> 00:26:29.609 So, we actually ordered some 00:26:29.721 --> 00:26:31.977 and sent them to this lab to be analyzed. 00:26:32.052 --> 00:26:34.096 And they found that when that guy said the pills 00:26:34.196 --> 00:26:36.161 were super potent, he wasn't lying. 00:26:36.462 --> 00:26:38.968 Because each contained 180 milligrams of dapoxetine. 00:26:39.043 --> 00:26:41.937 That's three to six times the prescription dose 00:26:42.062 --> 00:26:43.531 of a drug for premature ejaculation 00:26:43.606 --> 00:26:46.334 that's not been approved for use here in the US. 00:26:46.459 --> 00:26:49.028 And they contained 270 milligrams 00:26:49.128 --> 00:26:51.664 of sildenafil, the active ingredient in Viagra. 00:26:51.739 --> 00:26:55.051 That's nearly three times the maximum prescription dose. 00:26:55.201 --> 00:26:56.760 That is a lot. 00:26:56.982 --> 00:26:57.916 And worryingly, 00:26:57.983 --> 00:27:00.552 none of those ingredients were listed on the package, 00:27:00.632 --> 00:27:01.553 which instead claimed 00:27:01.653 --> 00:27:03.551 it's an all-natural herbal supplement 00:27:03.726 --> 00:27:05.524 containing stuff like cinnamon bark, 00:27:05.657 --> 00:27:08.164 -licorice, and deer root. -(AUDIENCE LAUGHS, GROANS) 00:27:08.289 --> 00:27:09.924 All of which just sounds like the ingredients 00:27:10.032 --> 00:27:12.498 -on Sleepytime tea. -(AUDIENCE LAUGHS) 00:27:12.564 --> 00:27:14.295 And there is a reason that the sleepy bear 00:27:14.370 --> 00:27:17.382 isn't rocking a massive hard-on on that package. 00:27:17.482 --> 00:27:18.766 -(AUDIENCE LAUGHS) -So... 00:27:19.558 --> 00:27:20.606 what do we do? 00:27:21.440 --> 00:27:23.462 Well, first, take care of it, but also... 00:27:23.539 --> 00:27:24.443 (AUDIENCE LAUGHS) 00:27:24.514 --> 00:27:26.857 ...RFK and his FDA director 00:27:26.932 --> 00:27:28.526 have actually been talking about the dangers 00:27:28.626 --> 00:27:31.984 of some of these products, which I guess is good. 00:27:32.446 --> 00:27:34.915 I do worry RFK's either going to say they cause autism 00:27:34.987 --> 00:27:36.555 or suggest they somehow be replaced 00:27:36.755 --> 00:27:38.490 with ground-up raccoon carcass, 00:27:38.590 --> 00:27:40.021 but still, it's something. 00:27:40.096 --> 00:27:42.995 Now, unfortunately, though, any good moves that they take 00:27:43.295 --> 00:27:44.897 are likely to be undermined by the fact 00:27:44.997 --> 00:27:46.732 that they've gutted the FDA, which, 00:27:46.790 --> 00:27:49.338 even before they came along, wasn't exactly well-staffed. 00:27:49.738 --> 00:27:50.806 Meanwhile, some states are taking 00:27:50.881 --> 00:27:52.024 a more proactive approach. 00:27:52.104 --> 00:27:54.218 Missouri's AG, for instance, has launched an investigation 00:27:54.306 --> 00:27:56.654 into major kratom manufacturers and retailers 00:27:56.729 --> 00:27:58.772 for potentially dangerous and illegal practices. 00:27:58.897 --> 00:28:01.446 That is how they came to be suing this guy. 00:28:01.634 --> 00:28:04.420 Although it shows how slippery this industry is 00:28:04.670 --> 00:28:07.197 that he said that if 7-OH is banned, 00:28:07.297 --> 00:28:09.154 his company already has another product 00:28:09.288 --> 00:28:10.417 ready to replace it. 00:28:10.634 --> 00:28:14.255 Look, something clearly has to be done with this industry, 00:28:14.330 --> 00:28:16.895 but the key thing is to do it very carefully. 00:28:17.262 --> 00:28:18.509 Because in the case of products 00:28:18.597 --> 00:28:20.632 containing kratom, 7-OH, and tianeptine, 00:28:20.999 --> 00:28:23.689 a lot of people have now become dependent on them. 00:28:23.814 --> 00:28:26.159 And one thing I want to be absolutely clear about is 00:28:26.330 --> 00:28:29.721 if states are going to start banning some of these drugs, 00:28:29.871 --> 00:28:32.711 that should only happen alongside a plan to help people 00:28:32.844 --> 00:28:34.658 who cannot suddenly stop using them, 00:28:34.926 --> 00:28:37.044 whether it's because they're using them to treat pain 00:28:37.169 --> 00:28:38.913 or because they've become addicted. 00:28:39.138 --> 00:28:40.906 Because if we learned one thing 00:28:41.320 --> 00:28:42.654 from the opioid crisis, 00:28:42.955 --> 00:28:44.227 it's that every family fortune 00:28:44.289 --> 00:28:45.490 is built on the blood of strangers. 00:28:45.591 --> 00:28:47.793 -(AUDIENCE LAUGHS) -But if we learned two things, 00:28:48.160 --> 00:28:50.229 it's that when you take something very strong 00:28:50.329 --> 00:28:51.263 off the market, 00:28:51.325 --> 00:28:53.702 not everyone can just quit cold turkey. 00:28:54.266 --> 00:28:56.702 So there has to be a harm reduction plan 00:28:56.768 --> 00:28:58.503 to go alongside any potential ban. 00:28:58.570 --> 00:29:01.206 And I know there are plenty of substances out there 00:29:01.306 --> 00:29:02.945 that are addictive or dangerous, 00:29:03.020 --> 00:29:04.943 alcohol, tobacco, prescription drugs. 00:29:05.010 --> 00:29:07.733 But with those things, we've tried over the years, 00:29:07.833 --> 00:29:09.368 and not always perfectly, 00:29:09.718 --> 00:29:12.371 to match the level of regulation around them 00:29:12.726 --> 00:29:14.373 to the level of risks they present, 00:29:14.766 --> 00:29:16.016 to make sure that, at the very least, 00:29:16.091 --> 00:29:18.156 you know what you're getting and what risks you're taking 00:29:18.223 --> 00:29:19.862 when you choose to consume them. 00:29:19.937 --> 00:29:21.460 What we haven't done, though, 00:29:21.672 --> 00:29:23.649 is let it be a total free-for-all 00:29:23.862 --> 00:29:25.626 where companies can just sell whatever they want 00:29:25.726 --> 00:29:26.802 to anyone who wants it 00:29:26.865 --> 00:29:28.762 and lie about what it contains. 00:29:29.001 --> 00:29:30.202 And unfortunately, right now, 00:29:30.302 --> 00:29:32.237 it's become incumbent upon all of us 00:29:32.466 --> 00:29:34.969 to make ourselves aware of the potential dangers here, 00:29:35.040 --> 00:29:36.295 because these products can be 00:29:36.370 --> 00:29:37.855 much more addictive than you think, 00:29:38.176 --> 00:29:40.545 more powerful than you may even want them to be, 00:29:40.712 --> 00:29:42.960 and contain things you did not sign up for. 00:29:43.419 --> 00:29:45.121 So if I may quote Joe Rogan, 00:29:45.183 --> 00:29:47.398 something I really don't love to do... 00:29:47.498 --> 00:29:48.591 (AUDIENCE LAUGHS) 00:29:48.654 --> 00:29:50.885 ...it's crucial to know that this stuff could, 00:29:50.985 --> 00:29:52.557 in his words, "fuck you up." 00:29:52.658 --> 00:29:53.558 (AUDIENCE LAUGHS) 00:29:53.625 --> 00:29:56.166 But unlike Joe Rogan, it's just as crucial 00:29:56.361 --> 00:29:58.163 to not then swallow ten of them. 00:29:58.284 --> 00:29:59.364 (AUDIENCE LAUGHS) 00:29:59.464 --> 00:30:02.171 Because while gas station drugs may look fun and low risk, 00:30:02.271 --> 00:30:04.636 especially when they're sold in familiar environments, 00:30:04.736 --> 00:30:05.737 the truth is, 00:30:05.950 --> 00:30:07.673 you could easily wind up addicted 00:30:07.973 --> 00:30:11.009 and losing tens of Honda Civics worth of money to them. 00:30:11.143 --> 00:30:13.645 -(AUDIENCE LAUGHS) -Or indeed, far, far worse.